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Behind the Stay Salty Cover Art: Q&A with Frances Ngo on disability, (bio)diversity, and outdoor representation

By Olivia Juarez


In the spring, I sat by Pia Okwai (the Jordan River) for an interview with Frances Ngo, Tracy Aviary’s Manager of Conservation Outreach and our Stay Salty cover artist. Birds chirped in the background and people passed along the Jordan River Trail as we talked about queer birding for our recent podcast episode on recreation (listen here!). I also asked Frances to describe the cover art and her creative process. The conversation turned to a reflection on disability and outdoor representation in art.


A brown nonbinary person and a brown woman sit at a picnic table. They're holding microphones, and mic cables weave across the table. Mountains are in the distance with some snow on them. The Jordan River Parkway trail is in the close background.
Olivia Juarez and Frances Ngo record a conversation at the Nature Center at Pia Okwai this past spring.

We’re sharing the conversation today on the final day of National Disability Pride Month, which occurs every July to honor the history, achievements, and experiences of the disabled community.


This interview has been edited for length and clarity.


Olivia Juarez: Do you want to tell people about what's going on with the cover art?


Frances Ngo: To represent the human connection (to the lake) I ended up going with a circular design, and incorporating some of the sunset colors. That is a very key memory that I had — watching the sunsets out on Great Salt Lake. So I referenced the picture that I took then to look at the colors and how the water looks at that time of day. There is a bird flying across the skyline. There's a brine shrimp in the corner, and then two people in conversation on the lake.

Stay Salty: Lakefacing Stories cover art. The background is a sandy, light brown color. Towards the Top flowy handwriting says  Stay Salty, curved over a circular image of the lake at sunset. Pink, yellow, and orange clouds cover a blue sky. Mountains are on the right. A person in a wheelchair and a person wearing a hijab sit at the front of the image at the shore of the lake. Speech bubbles come from each head. A bird flies through the sky and a brine shrimp swims in the water. Curved around the bottom of the image int he same curvy handwriting is "lakefacing stories" in a dark blue writing with a white outline.
Cover art for the Stay Salty: Lakefacing Stories podcast by Frances Ngo.

I was wondering, how do I represent people in general? It is very important— as artists — to ask, how are we representing people in a way that makes lots of different people feel included? So when I was drawing out the silhouettes, I had two stick figures in the corner and I was like, “Okay, I'll think about that. I'll get back to them.”


It is very important — as artists — to ask, how are we representing people in a way that makes lots of different people feel included?

It's a very pointed choice to include someone who's in a wheelchair, sitting out and facing the lake. And then another person in a hijab sitting next to them talking. When it comes to outdoor recreation representation in general, an able bodied person running on a trail is depicted, and they're usually white. There’s a lot of different types of outdoor artists who I follow. They have people as their subjects and they are very, very conscious about who they are choosing to represent the face of nature or the outdoors. I take inspiration from them.


A colorful sunset behind Great Salt Lake reflects on the calm lake water.
Photo used by Frances as a reference for the Stay Salty cover art. Photo by Sarah May

OJ: The Farmington Bay Waterfowl Management Area is a really awesome place for people with disabilities to go birding. There’s nice hard-packed gravel, a large parking lot, and beautiful boardwalks.


FN: Yeah. I have to also recognize that I am pretty much able bodied for now. That's not always at the forefront of my mind. But it's something that I have been more conscious of. Like as I was having to evaluate some of our field sites for our community science projects, I noticed we don't have a lot of site descriptions about the physical requirements to get to some of our places. And maybe somebody who's like joining us on these trips might not sign up because they’re like, “Oh, accommodations won't be made,” or “Nobody has thought about this.” So that's something that I am working towards being more cognizant of.


A mixed race woman stands near reeds and the shore of the Jordan River. She's wearing a black leather jacket and has green flowy hair and a colorful pink and purple scarf. She's holding binoculars in one hand up to her eyes, looking out in the distance.
Frances Ngo looks for birds along Pia Okwai (Jordan River) this past spring. Photo by Jeri Gravlin.

Olivia Juarez is a Stay Salty: Lakefacing Stories host and Of Salt And Sand co-founder. They nourish Latino/a/e joy in nature conservation and advocacy as the Public Land Program Director of GreenLatinos.

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